Combining Ancients

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Combining Ancients

Post  Just4fun on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:13 am

Hey
I'm interested how many Ancients are needed to combine one Supreme or Elder. It would be awesome when someone knows the answer. I guess that I have way to less Ancients.Suspect

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  giannis468 on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:31 am

it depends man on ur luck.i manage with 200 salas to create ultra god

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  [Ace] Gh0st on Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:39 am

Giannis, that is some pretty insane luck! Gratz dude Very Happy


Just4fun, here's how the math works out (assuming you don't special combine):

There are 7 tiers from ancient and supreme: chaos, ultimate, god, s god, ss god, u god, supreme.

With a 33% combine success rate, getting 1 monster of a particular tier requires 4 of the tier below it (on average). For example, you need (on average) 4 ancients to get 1 chaos. Therefore, to get 1 supreme, you need around 4^7 = 16384 ancients.

With a 50% combine success rate, you need 3 ancients to get 1 chaos. So to get 1 supreme, you need around 3^7 = 2187 ancients.

With a 40% success rate, you'll fall somewhere between 2187 and 16384. You probably need around 5k-6k ancients to be safe.

[Ace] Gh0st
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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Just4fun on Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:52 pm

haha this is just crazy... thanks Ghost

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Just4fun on Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:33 pm

So I did some calculations as well.


The table shows that I will need 9000 Ancients to get the chance for one Elder and it will cost 303.985.734.172

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Ohm on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:29 am

I made alsmost the same calculations as just4fun but with and without recombining the failed combined and it yields (40% chance and 9000 ancients) :

with failed recombined :
A 9000
C 2571.377958
U 734.6649559
G 209.9001416
SG 59.9702886
SSG 17.13403092
UG 4.895341048
S 1.398641341
E 0.399603946

without failed recombined :
A 9000
C 1800
U 360
G 72
SG 14.4
SSG 2.88
UG 0.576
S 0.1152
E 0.02304

I can post the results for different chance % if someone need but I don't know how to properly present results in table format for easier reading

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  HiddenFromYou on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:12 am

But then there's the fact that if you pass U-God, you're full of relief. If you fail, you just lost half your ancients.

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Ohm on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:44 am

In term of total amount of damage, e.g. for fire (I farm sala) :

if 1000 fire ancients is 100%, with 43% chance rate and with failed recombined:
A 1310000 100.00%
C 1187747.503 90.67%
U 1075972.131 82.14%
G 970620.1608 74.09%
SG 875583.5489 66.84%
SSG 789852.2842 60.29%
UG 712515.2495 54.39%
S 857000.7176 65.42%
E 1030785.279 78.69%

So at UG level you're left with 54% of the damage you had with ancients.

But as S and E ratio is x4 instead of x3, you get back some % on these levels

From what I calculated, not to lose damage in combining up to supreme level, you need 47% of chance to combine with failed combines recombined. If you don't recombine failed one, you must have 63.9% chance rate to have same amount of damages at supreme level than at ancient level.

Now factors like extra combine chance for jewels and special event can help a lot (potentially in terms of thousands of ancients).

And bonus like -x seconds energy charginc etc.. may be worth damage losses.

From all this what I started to do :
- max your ancients number
- save money in bank (because my def points are not exceptionnally good)
- wait for combine event and release everything if calculation sheet say it is worth


Regards

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Just4fun on Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:57 pm

All calculations are based on the catch rate. So it's obvious that you only get those calculated amounts of monsters when you combine many monsters. Hiddenfromyou you're right. There are just a couple of important combinations and I think it's mostly luck when you combine Ultra Gods or stuff like that. I prefer to wait until there is a good event. But first I will farm the Ancient Armor 3% is a lot when you combine hundreds of monsters.

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Havarian on Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:46 am

Combine, combine and one more time - combine! Few minutes ago I had 30x ancients, 4x chaos, 3x ultimates, 2x god's, 3x sgod's, 4x ssgod's and one ultra. I said to myself that I'm gonna to combine all of them and try my luck to get at least supreme. From these ancients/chaos/ultimates/gods I made another one sgod. And then was the most stressful moment. I failed in a row all sgod's and one ssgod... I Tried one more time and... Got my second air ultra! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... My general attack slightly changed but when it comes to dungeons... It was big, big fail. Before my combining it was really hard for me to get 4,1% on 150lvl dungeon boss juggernaut (I had air ultra, water/fire/earth/dark ssgod's and holy sgod). After those combines it would be impossible for me to get s rank in this boss. My hands was shaking but I went all out and I combined these 2x ultra... Now I'm happy with my first supreme! Very Happy 

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Ki11 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:17 pm

if this helps I combined 60 salas and got a ss god

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  tcthetank on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:06 pm

Havarian how many attacks did you need before to get 4% on the 150 dungeon?

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Re: Combining Ancients

Post  Havarian on Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:20 am

tcthetank wrote:Havarian how many attacks did you need before to get 4% on the 150 dungeon?

About 12-13 times x5 stam. Sometimes it was impossible because boss falling in about 3-4 minutes. Now I need max 6 times x5 stam (sometimes 5 times is enough) but even now, sometimes it's hard for me to do 4%... Cause of selfish spenders. Everytime I see player who did for example 15% dmg (greetings to Laufeia). Idiots...

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Re: Combining Ancients

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